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Arts : Writers Drinking Coffee Review

Dec. 22, 2021

Arts : Writers Drinking Coffee Review

Arts : Writers Drinking Coffee Review

Drinking Coffee and Talking about Writing

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I discovered writers drinking coffee at the beginning of the pandemic. Like many people, I was working out in my home, and I needed something to pass the time. Plus, I'm a writer and I do love drinking coffee. So I saw the name of this podcast and instantly, I was hooked.

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Where you can find the show click here

Hosts : Jeanine Warner, Chaz Brenchly, John Schmidt

Number of episodes at the time of this recording : 125

Avg episode length : 33 minutes

First published : 11 June 2019

Description by host : This is a podcast based on writers sitting around, drinking coffee and/or occasionally wine, and talking about anything and everything.

Category : Arts

Frequency : Weekly

Emails : jeannie@writersdrinkingcoffee.com,  chaz@writersdrinkingcoffee.com,  john@writersdrinkingcoffee.com

FaceBook Group : https://www.facebook.com/writersdrinkingcoffee 

Twitter : https://twitter.com/drinkingwriters 

Podchaser Link : https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/writers-drinking-coffee-889692 

Listen Notes Link : https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/writers-drinking-coffee-writers-drinking-sF3MNPzGaI2/ 

Listen Notes rating : top 10%

Support Page : https://www.teepublic.com/user/writersdrinkingcoffee 


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Arts Writers Drinking Coffee Review

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Timothy  00:01
You're listening to find a podcast about. Hey, thank you for hitting play on your podcast app. I'm your host, Timothy Kimo, Brian. And I bring my experience with podcasting since 2006, as a listener, and a podcaster. Calm here to help you outsmart the algorithm and find your next binge worthy podcast. Here's how the show works. I comb through millions of podcasts currently available for free on various platforms. And then I come back to you with what I've found. Sure, you can use search engines for recommendations from many podcast apps. But I feel that getting a personal recommendation from a real live breathing person is still the best way to find the gems that are out there. The show is broken up into three halves. Yeah, I'm a huge fan of Car Talk. So bear with me. The first half is the stats of the show being reviewed, give you all the details about where to find the show how many episodes who's hosting the show, basically, that part is just for those that want the stats. The second half of the show, I dig deeper into the show, and letting you know how well hosts interact. Talk about the audio quality a bit. And then I'll let you know what I think the show is about. Now the last half of the show is where I talk about why the show is binge worthy. You know where to start your journey with the show being reviewed. And I'll be reaching out to the host to see if they'd like to discuss their show and talk about their podcast journey. So let's get going. I discovered writers drinking coffee at the beginning of the pandemic, like many people I was working on in my home, and I needed something to pass the time. Plus, I'm a writer and I do love drinking coffee. So I saw the name of this podcast and instantly, I was hooked. Now you can find writers drinking coffee at writers drinking coffee.com links will be in the show notes or any of your podcast apps. Now your hosts for this are Jeannie Warner, she has brunch Lee and John Smith. And they can be reached at Genie at writers drink coffee calm chairs at Rogers drinking coffee calm. And you guessed it, John at writers drinking coffee.com. Now the genre of this podcast is in the Arts category. And they do post weekly. Their first episode debuted June 11 2019. And they have published about 125 episodes at the time of this recording. Now each episode, clocks in at about 33 minutes, some more, some less, but the average is about 33 minutes. And I'm going to let Genie go ahead and describe to you what the show was all about.

Jeannie  03:13
This is a podcast based on writers sitting around drinking coffee and or occasional cocktails, and talking about anything and everything.

Timothy  03:20
Now, they do have a Facebook page and a Twitter account, I'll have the links to reach out to them in the show notes. Now each host has an Instagram has their own personal Instagram account. And the show does have a T public account where you can buy items with their logo on it. And according to listen notes, they are in the top 10% of their niche. So they have amassed a great following. Now I'll have the Listen notes and pod chaser links in the show notes as well for more information on the show. Now they do consider themselves PG 13 as they do have occasional adult language. And sometimes they cover topics like sex in their episodes. One of their episodes is about sex and romance and writing. So if that's a turn off for you then avoid the you know those specific episodes. We'll talk about those later. But even in that episode, they treat the subject like adults and with care for their audience. So I wouldn't necessarily avoid those episodes. But you do need to know about them. I had a time Are you happy with your podcast app? I know hard question to answer. But let me ask you this. Does your app allow you to rate the podcast that you're listening to? Great if it does, but does it allow you to rate every episode you listen to? Does it allow you to join a community of other listeners Share and comment on your favorite podcasts. If you're a podcaster does the app that your listeners are using give you a tip jar where they can support your show directly instead of paying fees to somebody else? Well, good pods allows you as a listener, and as a podcaster. to rate and review all the episodes of a podcast, as well as joining a community of other podcast enthusiasts to discuss that thing that we all love podcasts, give it a shot, and you may not want to go back to your old app, and you might find a community that is engaged and excited about the same things you are grabbing on Google Play or the Apple Store today. Now let's dive into this podcast. One of the things that I really enjoy is how in every episode, usually a genie introduces the show, and you as a listener know what to expect. The beginning is usually the same, but for new listeners, just discovering this podcast. This give a warm feeling. And to those who have binged on the podcast, it feels like old friends getting together to talk about writing. Let's hear what that sounds like.

Jeannie  06:28
There will be rants, there will be raves, there will be occasional reading, there will be conflicting creative advice driven by at least three utterly disparate points of view. Your hosted adventure adventure are Chaz Brenchley, John Schmidt, and me Jeannie Warner.

Timothy  06:44
Now, since this intro is usually the same and maybe scripted. Each shot each time Genie reads it. I never feel that it's a script. You know, when a podcast welcomes you the same way each time then it feels familiar and welcoming. You know what you're getting into. And the hosts become more like friends than podcast hosts. Now with welcome taken care of. Since there are three host, they interact with each other really nicely, you can tell that they're good friends, and you get the feeling that you're listening to a conversation between people you'd really like to know in your personal life. Rarely are there times when they speak over each other. But when it does happen, it's just like a regular conversation between folks who know where they're going in that conversation. Usually, Jeannie is leading the conversation, and Chaz and John produce great follow up questions or relly, you know their thoughts on what the guest is talking about, which is usually writing. In writing circles, egos can take over sometimes, in my experience with most writing groups I've attended, this has definitely been the case. But in this podcast, each host gets enough mic time to contribute to the episode. Now I'd like to put on my podcasters ear for you for just a moment. Before episode about 39 or 40, the host would be in a coffee shop. And the quality was a little hurt by that since there were customers moaning about and on occasion interrupting. Now to me, it sounded like they had one microphone in the middle of a table and they were all using it. That being said, for me, it added to the nuance of the podcast. And then it felt like a very positive Writers Workshop. When I listened to the earlier episodes, I really want to get into that conversation with them. And you know, drink some coffee, which I usually do. Now after the pandemic took hold, they had to go remote just like everybody else. And for me, they didn't really miss a beat. They pivoted very well and the sound quality actually got a little bit better for the most part. Of course, you know, there were some guests that didn't have the best setup to do an interview. However, I could hear at the guest what the guests had to say. And the host, for the most part, were crystal clear. I think most listeners would not even notice but if they do, the content was more compelling than the actual audio quality. Another strength to this podcast is that they are laser focused on the topic at hand, which is usually interviews with other writers. Now each interview, they focus on what the guest is saying. And every episode I've listened to. The hosts are very well prepared. Jeannie or if John or Chaz is leading introduces the guest so that we the listener are familiar with the guests and know what to expect. They take the time to get to know their guests, and they get out of the way to let the guests tell their stories. Now I'm going to play something from Episode 122, where they were talking about 911 inverse.

Jeannie  10:07
You had been a writer and a poet long before this. How did this stress affect your creativity and your ability to to put all of these thoughts and emotions and more into words? What did stress do?

Guest for WDC  10:24
It shut me down initially, for a long time. I didn't, I didn't write it all for I mean, at all for about six months, a lot of other writers and other kinds of artists very quickly went into a creative spell. And so a lot of early work came out in response to this.

Timothy  10:51
In that exchange from Episode 122, remember, 911 inverse, you just heard the guest talking about her experience with the tragedy of 911, and how it affected her writing. It's episodes like this one that I keep coming back to, and will listen to repeatedly, probably on 911, or, after something happens in my life that impacts me, as it did this guest. Now, I'd like to stay with the hosts for just another moment here. The three main hosts are Jeannie, Jess, and John. And they all have diverse backgrounds. But one thing that unites them is writing. Now writing can be a very solitary art. But these three have been able to reach out and amass listeners and a following, that for me, at least, it makes the practice of writing feel just a little bit less lonely. Now, each of the hosts brings with them a distinct perspective, as each host is in a different phase of their writing career. They all have published books, either electronically or in print. And it seems to me chance, probably has the most experience or the most success. But it does feel like they each respect each other's viewpoints. They don't always agree. They're not Yes, men for each other's egos. But for the listener, who is an aspiring writer, or an accomplished writer, then this is the type of podcast that needs to be on your playlist. One last point I'd like to bring about this podcast, in this half of the show, is that the hosts are always having fun. Now, as they say, in their opening, this podcast is a labor of love. And in each episode, you can hear that the hosts are enjoying making the show, and, you know, having their guests on. Now, when I worked in customer service, a trick we used to do is put a mirror up in our cubicle, and smile while we're talking to customers, so that the customer could hear your smile. Now, I don't know if the hosts do this or not for the show. But I could hear their smiles each time I play an episode. And I can honestly say, when I hear the guitar playing and the introduction for each episode, I can't help but start to smile. I know I'm in for a treat. And for some enjoyable conversation about writing. This is not something that most people can fake over 130 episodes or 125 episodes. So I think they have something going that some podcasts just don't have. They're having a lot of fun doing what they're doing. If you've liked what you've heard so far, then I'd like to ask you to reach out you can email me directly Timothy at Find a podcast about XYZ or you can leave a voicemail at the website, find a podcast about that XYZ. I want to help you find your next binge worthy podcast. And if you want me to find a podcast in any category that you're interested in, let me know if you're a podcaster and feel that your podcast would be served by appearing on the show. I want to talk with you to use the same methods to reach out. I'm on Twitter at Find a pod about Instagram and Facebook at Find a podcast about another thing I'd like to ask is if you find value in this podcast, pass it along to a friend. Lastly, doing this podcast is a labor of love but loving cheap. So consider donating to my buy me a coffee find right on the website or go to buy me a coffee calm slash find a podcast about each episode usually takes about five to seven hours of research. And then about two to three hours of production time. That's about seven that's about 10 hours per episode. That is a lot of coffee. Like I said earlier, the best recommendations come from a real person. Let's outsmart the algorithm together. And while on the topic about supporting the show, our first supporter ever, your Campbell from the poetic earthlings podcast, you can find him at poetic earthlings.com has become our first sponsor for our show. So, a big shout out to York Campbell, check out his podcast, it might even be reviewed on this show. Thank you so much you're. So this is where I turn you from a listener to this show, into a binder of writers drinking coffee. I really enjoy this podcast because it brings a feeling of community to me. As a writer, I enjoy the conversations they have in learning how other people do their writing, and the stories they have about their journey. This podcast is definitely one for listeners who enjoy writing our writers, or enjoy hearing about writers and their process. Now if you're not in the business of writing, don't worry. Everything they talk about is easy enough to understand and enjoy. You can simply get into this podcast by listening to the writers tell their stories of success and failure, and how they accomplished their art. One thing I would be remiss in not talking about is occasionally they do use adult language. And a few topics are adult centered, specifically Episode 30, where they discuss sex and writing and how to approach writing sex scenes. And episode 90 where they talk about romance and race relations. Now that first episode, Episode 30, is more risky than the second one. However, when they tackle topics like this, it's done without all the grade school Snickers and giggling and all that stuff. You know, other podcasts can do that. But this one does not. They have fun with the topics and approach it very professionally. However, you should know. Before going into any of these episodes, they do have some language. And let's hear what they have to say about that.

Jeannie  17:26
We may use explicit language and will almost certainly drop a thumbs. But this is not the point of this podcast or the drive of the content. So in a general scale of life, consider a PG 13.

Timothy  17:39
Now a good question would be where should you start your binge? Well, I'd say go with the very first episode, and then look through the show titles to see what would interest you. Literally, you can start anywhere. But to get the full effect of the show. I'd say start with number one and move forward from there. And look out for the infamous episode 69. That's one of my favorite episodes. And after you listen to it, you'll know what I mean. Now, to sum all this up, if you're a writer, or you enjoy coffee, or if you enjoy hearing stories about writers, then don't sleep on this jam. Yet, binging on it right away. You're going to be entertained, enlightened, educated throughout all the episodes. Now I do have one complaint about the podcast. And they don't tell the audience who's going to be on in future episodes. So you do need to have your app set for auto download. This could be due to the availability of the individuals they talk with or maybe it's just something that a they've not been made aware of that would be a nice to have. Other than that, let me know what you think. In which episode is your favorite? Maybe it'll be like mine, Episode 69. So it's that time in the show, where I bring on Jeannie who was one of the hosts for writers drinking coffee in Deidre, the webmaster and podcast guru behind the show. Let's see what they have to say about their show. 

Jeannie  19:21
We're so happy to be

Timothy  19:24
Hey, I'm happy to have you here. We had fun before recording. We're gonna have fun during recording and then after the recording, we'll have a lot of fun. One of the things that I brought up in my review was how you all were able to pivot from doing your show live to doing and how we're doing everything now, which is doing it virtual. How was that pivot for you? And for the rest of the team?

Jeannie  19:55
It had hiccups at first it really did. There was an ocean of learning of the details of sound editing for one because for everybody has been on a zoom call, you get, somebody might see saying a word like enema, and then a little metallic noise small and so there's little holes in the words. So it taught me a new skill of going through and revitalizing old recording studio skills to see where you start seeing a recognition of the shape. And how do you take that out and patch it all back together.

Dee  20:32
And honestly, the fact that this group of people in some subset or another has been meeting around that coffee table for 810 years, a long time, long before it became a podcast. So transitioning to a podcast was recording conversations that was already happening, and transitioning to online was recording the same conversations, you know, over the phone.

Jeannie  20:54
It's a little challenging for our guests, because many of our guests while they have been writers in one way or another, not all of them have been technically adept writers. There's many of them have been older, maybe or have not watched many podcasts or certainly have never plugged in and recorded anything. So there's always been a little bit of a learning curve a few times we've had John go down and show somebody how to set things up and be technical support.

Dee  21:23
I don't think any of our authors have own microphones.

Jeannie  21:27
Oh, no, that is not true, though. Who Charlie Stross had it very sexy microphone. 

Dee  21:31
There we go. One. One.

Jeannie  21:35
I want to say three, but I can't remember.

Timothy  21:39
I have to figure out a way to get on your show. Because I have a sexy microphone. I have the RE 320.

Jeannie  21:46
Tim, will you cone and be on our podcast.

Dee  21:49
I mean, you clearly write

Jeannie  21:50
We'd love to have you on our podcast?

Timothy  21:52
Oh, what are you doing next week? I am. So they're 

Jeannie  21:56

Dee  21:57
So that's actually one of the interesting things you mentioned in the review was how we don't talk about what's upcoming. And you didn't know you know what our turnaround was? Most of the time we record and then that's up, like two days later. It's there's, there's very little lead time in ours. So what are we doing next week? I'm not actually sure. But I think I'm going to get it probably tomorrow.

Jeannie  22:22
I have, I try to keep I tried to keep three episodes in advance just from because of pandemic. And because I want to say podcasting in the time of color, we have all had to learn to adjust. There's also the I don't think I can adult very much next week. So we better get a couple episodes in the can. And so that I can lay around and stare at the season, see the ceiling, stare at the ceiling and obsess over the weight of life's problems. And you got to have time for that. Which means that you need to give yourself a few episodes so that you can produce something every Tuesday.

Timothy  22:55
That's true. And with writing, it can get in the way of your podcasting because writing is your main passion. And I know I've had that issue, especially last month with National Novel Writing Month that, you know, doing the pod and the writing really got in the way of the podcasting. But it worked out.

Jeannie  23:18
But you mentioned you had kids who pull kids help you lose hair turn gray, so

Timothy  23:23
well yeah, you know that your the kids gotten away sometimes.

Jeannie  23:28
I mean, kids are kind of pardon the expression but the ultimate cock block to getting shit done. I mean, I'm going to sit down, and I'm going to write, except for somebody who's had explosive diarrhea somewhere in between their bedroom, and okay, I'm gonna go do that now.

Timothy  23:43
And sometimes that was me.

Jeannie  23:47
As it happens, you know, but they're not listening. So we're gonna blame them. One of the episodes we had we talked about writing blocks, and a block in a scene or a block and a plot or where do I go from here. And the third one we invited was our friend cliff, , he's got three kids now and twin girls and a little boy. And he says, How do I find time? How do I make time to do this thing when I'm a full time daddy and a full time teacher, as many people are with a home schooling from home. So I believe that kids make everything harder. So hats off to you right now for having them and then dealing with it.

Timothy  24:25
I do what I can I do what I can at least they're not throwing poop on the walls anymore. One of the things that you just said about having three episodes in the can was that the way that you started your process, because that's a really good practice to have for other podcasters out there.

Jeannie  24:49
There's a little bit more prep time than that in that I like to read a little bit of something that everybody has done. Because then when I go and I talk to them in person, I like To be able to answer real questions, not just canned questions like, so did you draw from your experience coaching hockey? Do you when you were writing this story? Or? Or was it based on when your parents got airlifted out of Toronto, I can feel the emotional content is the same. And by making it real for them, I like to think that it might ask questions that nobody else has asked them, especially for people to get a lot of interviews. Yeah. So there's there is a lot of reading that goes involved in prep of just being ready to talk to people, because even the new authors are new writers, like, can you send me a sample of your work, I'd be obliged for a PDF, so that I can read your story and absorb your story and think about something intelligent to ask about it. And then ideally, when we're pimping it out to listeners saying, Hey, this is a new writer, if you have any interest in any of these things, this person is totally for you.

Timothy  25:53
Exactly. And that's, you know, that's one of the great services that you do for the guests on your show. Just recently, you had a episode. And you're up to about 125, as of the recording of this interview, which is December the second, but you had a poet on there. And I forget her name. But I believe she was talking about her experiences with 911. And you guys did such a great job promoting her that, you know, it's on my podcast app, and I'm going to go ahead and buy her book because of your recommendation.

Dee  26:41
Well done. 

Jeannie  26:42
She was she was the 911 poet. 

Dee  26:44

Jeannie  26:45
It was very, it was interesting, because it was her whole journey and the topic of, you know, many people, especially in the past two years have discovered that anxiety has prevented them from having the freedom of creativity. And especially after for those of us that were around, you know, December, I know, December, September 11. I was at work, I was at work trying to figure out what I just lost connection to a whole bunch of machines, that we happen to be monitoring networks of people that were in the tower, you know, Deutsche Bank, had machines in that tower that suddenly they're offline and here's me frantically typing away trying to figure out why can't I find these machines and it took one of the guys in the in the sock with me reaching grabbing my shoulder, tilting my head up to look at the screen up. Well, holy shit. Look at that. I suppose the the I can't reach your machine is not top on Giuliani's list of things I'm going to tell him about today.

Dee  27:42
No, yeah. And there's some vendors who, who thrive on stress, you know, stress is what makes them, you know, go wild. But I think more people found out in the last two years, what long term stress and how it differs from Yeah, adrenaline rush. Yeah, because you can't have an adrenaline rush for two years.

Jeannie  28:04
Well, that's like the joke that said, you know, the minute I have time, I'm going to clean out the garage. And it turns out, that's not the reason the garage is not clean. It's not time. But

Timothy  28:13
exactly. Because the thing of it is, is that, you know, life happens, one of the things I learned in my Air Force stays as a mechanic was that, you know, to ask if somebody's going to die because of this. And if not, then just keep on doing what you're doing.

Jeannie  28:31
Exactly. And it was interesting. There was a few they were like Kate Elliott, Alma Alexander and a few others said, What inspires them to keep writing in these troubled times. And they were pretty blunt, and they said, mortgage, you know, 

Dee  28:44
I have to buy groceries, 

Jeannie  28:46
meaning their mortgage live, you know, I'm fueled by creativity. And I make a point to be creative at 6am to 10am every day. It's just it's a different experience, depending on whether you're making your livelihood that way, versus you still have another alternative income.

Dee  29:02
passion project.

Jeannie  29:03

Dee  29:04
I will say that is one of the things that I like about this about our podcast is the number of people who have in their head that once you get one book that sells well, you're set for life, oh God, and the realization that a really, really successful author might make enough to buy their groceries off their monthly checks. Yeah. If unless it goes to television, or you know, some other form of media, straight up book writing. You got to keep writing and you got to keep on having bestsellers and then you survive. Yeah, the TV show Castle, where everything he did was Britain books, and he was a millionaire with his own giant apartment in New York. I was like, Oh, no. Something has been syndicated there.

Jeannie  29:53
I presumed they were all using much like knives out in the movie that they were all using the fictional life of Rex Stout, the man who wrote Nero was He was fantastically successful and profitable in his own lifetime, because he produced a product that everybody wanted, and they kept consuming. But that is the exception rather than the rule. However, everyone should still write who wants to.

Timothy  30:16
And maybe that would be this would be something that I would say, on writers drinking coffee that because of the pandemic, people are starting to find their voices. And they're starting to write about their experiences. And they're finding a sense of community, within the writing world that they would have not normally found in the past. And when I'm seeing that happen, you know, us old time writers that have been writing forever in a week, we're looking at it going, you know, I see what you're saying, I see how you're saying it. And I was where you're at, you know, maybe about 20 years ago, and it's very encouraging, at least for me,

Jeannie  31:02
exactly. Cassie Alexander brought that very much home for me. She's, she had been involved in the writing community. She'd written Fantasy, Romance, fantasy romance, for the most part. But she also real life is an ICU nurse. And she was an ICU nurse who volunteered for COVID. And she had a breakdown, after 2020 in mid 2021. And her therapist said, You need to get this out of you somehow. So she took her writing and turned it into catharsis. So she gathered up all of her tweets that she had done, and her social media and put it together and put the story around it. And that's where our 2020 year of the nurse came from. And it's a book that you can buy for anybody out there that if you still have any friends out there that say, the cure is worse than the disease, you should send them that book. Because people should hear about from an ICU nurse. What exactly happens when you get that disease? So but it was, and she says now she's writing again, and she just needed to stop and deal with that complex amalgamation of emotions inside of her.

Timothy  32:20
I heard that episode. And you know, that's a great episode to jump into writer's drinking coffee. As a matter of fact, you know, it started episode one in binge the whole thing. You've got nothing going on in your life right now. Just binge every episode that you can find.

Jeannie  32:40
Well, thank you. I feel we got, we went on we learned things. There were many things we learned. I made the opening a little bit simpler. Partly because as I listened to a few podcasts, it was like, how long does this intro have to be? Really I want get get to the monkey?

Dee  32:56
Three seconds. Okay,

Jeannie  32:57
we're good to the monkey.

Timothy  32:59
I gotta write something for three seconds. Done. There you go get it out the door.

Jeannie  33:04
Exactly. There's a musical group called tripod that wrote a song called King Kong after going to see the movie. And it's a song about how it takes forever to get we all came here to see a giant monkey. Don't make us wait two thirds of the movie to see a giant monkey. So a monkey. They mean every single joke and there's dirty jokes about it too. And you know, they call him tripod. But it is a musical comedy group out of Melbourne, Australia, and they are brilliant. 

Dee  33:34
They're on YouTube. 

Jeannie  33:35
They're on YouTube. You can gather and they're not paying

Timothy  33:40
to pay you something. 

Dee  33:42
But this would not be the first time they've been mentioned.

Jeannie  33:44
No, but I made pimped out tripod versus the dragon before because it is freaking hilarious. They wrote a musical based on d&d, 

Timothy  33:51
maybe we can talk to them into giving you some residuals are something for your hard work and your review of them. Before we were talking earlier in the interview here, we were talking about how this is going on for 10 years, you know, a bunch of people sitting around and and discussing writing. What was the impetus to go and move it into podcasting? You know, it's not that big of a jump for us because we're sitting here talking about podcasting. But what really got you guys thinking, this is going to make a great podcast.

Jeannie  34:28
It was a combination of factors. To be perfectly honest, one was too many times sitting there saying we should record this. This is hilarious. You guys are brilliantly funny, and snarky. And we loved Kenny, Kenny runs the bean scene. So you know, all hailed being seen. But it was also that Chas had reached a little bit of a writer's block. He'd been complaining one too many times that I hadn't really written anything since I moved to America. And John is like I really want to write a novel but I just can't get started. And I had written a couple novels and was having a block finding an agent. And so can we, you know, we should do something sideways, but creative that has to do with writing and see if we can spark something. And I'm very delighted to say, I don't know chess is gonna listen to this or not chances writing, Chaz has gotten new book deals, Chaz is finished a couple novels, since starting this. So by, by opening the plug in the dam, his creativity has really been able to flow. John's been working on his book. So it's really starting to work. So it gives us something to do. Plus, it gives us a chance, frankly, to pimp out all of our friends old and new. No discover interesting things. We do not interview everybody that asks. So there's a little bit of a process of going through and reading it and saying, is this at least somewhere out there that I, you know, that I feel good about pimping this out? And then and in some cases, an

Dee  35:58
An author will resonate with one of the hosts and not others. So you know, when we have different hosts, it's because this is someone who resonated with Jeannie, this is somebody resonated with John, you know, so right, we get a wider representation that way. Exactly.

Timothy  36:15
So switching over from focusing on the host, let's switch it up a bit and focus in on your audience members. Now, myself being a writer, I find a lot of value in your podcast. But who do you imagine is sitting there listening to this podcast? Obviously I am. Because while you're on the show here with me, but who do you think is listening?

Jeannie  36:44
What clever is in general? It's interesting. Dee Dee is my web spider and the web queen is said, Do you know we're in the 10 most popular webcasts in the Ukraine. And we're in the top 40 in Australia. It's like, so part of it, maybe people around the world who knew us in advance and are willing to listen to us and like, hey, our friends are funny. But at the second time, I hope that it is up there. We try to provide tools for people who say, Well, I could write that, I think and I think there's a moment of crystallization that anybody has ever read a book. And have you ever read a book and said, Oh, God, this is terrible. And yet this is published by a major mainstream, and now it's a motion picture. I could do better than this. We want to be there to prove that human being to say, yes, you totally can. And you should. And here's lessons. And here's advice. There's a book called The Mystery Writers handbook. And I mentioned it a few times in some of the early episodes. And I think anybody that would be writer of any genre should read it. Because every single chapter starts with a question. And they go through 20 different writers who give you 20 distinct and different answers. And that is the truth that we are trying to point out that there is no one way there is no one path there is no sure you might be perfect at 6am Every morning, but somebody else is going to be dictating as they drive down the road. And somebody else is going to be writing obsessively in their journal, but only on their lunch hour. And all of these methods in the end will produce books for you will produce stories will produce whatever creativity and then the second piece was I went in and started pushing and saying, there are many paths to writing. And some people say that, Oh, technical writing and business writing that kills it, and yet other people are like, if you're in the habit of writing every day, the habit is what matters, and then figuring out where you are and all these things. So hopefully we're giving people tools to try them.

Timothy  38:46
Absolutely, absolutely. You know, myself being a writer, this is definitely right up my alley, to help improve Minecraft and and what I am doing. But this is something that I think is accessible to everyone. Like you said, it's for anyone that loves books, and my wife definitely loves books. And she's not a huge podcast listener. I've told her about this. And she's very interested in the life of writers. She lives with a writer but she's interested. She knows my life. But she's interested in other writers. And this is right up her alley.

Jeannie  39:30
I mean, I gotta be honest, we cheat and take requests. Let me tell you a story. We we play hockey, d&i. John has been known to score hockey chairs has been under show up with pom poms and cheer hockey but, you know, basically hockey lovers. We were all in a women's hockey game, getting ready for something talking about the subject came up of books that really touched us and changed our life. And two of them that came up as we're all said, Oh my God, it was Let's move the DNS and pack scenario in and half the room was like, oh god, yes. The other ones picked up their phones. What was that? And one of them particularly, what do you like about it? What do you need about it like? Well, it's the it's the soldier's story of slogging through the mud. It's not the romantic boy with the strips, you know, it's not the chosen one, it really is the how to get where you want to go. And pulling yourself up and working and putting in the hard work. And we all loved that. And the other one, said Carol Berg, and she sent me a book. So I read the book, and I'm like, Carol, you don't know me, but you kind of know me and you are big with the women's hockey fan set, which you turn coming down a monopod. And, and it's easier, I think, for another to say, We freaking love you and I worship everything you've written? Would you like to come talk about it? And often they say yes. At worst, I've had the knot right now. And I have a couple of the, I have some hearing challenges. So not gonna say who they are. But eventually we will be a little bit scripted on a couple of the episodes just to make it easy for writers that can't hear quite as well, too. So we got David Drake before he just retired and I shed a little tear. I was so glad to have talked to him while he was still active. has Parkinson's is a horrible thing. And

Dee  41:22
you think twin girls makes it hard to write 

Jeannie  41:25
Let me tell ya about Parkinson's

Timothy  41:27
that is, that is a terrible thing. Especially for using you know, the pin or the keyboard. They have dragon speak out there and I have used it in the past. However, it really just didn't work for me wasn't the same thing.

Dee  41:45
 it's actually interesting. My, my middle sister is Margaret McAfee fist. She has been an author for 30 years now. You know, dozens of books out there. And she because of her job, got incredibly bad carpal tunnel 30 plus years ago, to the point where typing was physically painful. And she started with Dragon and went to Dragon Two and Dragon three and Dragon four. And she has trained it over years. And it became you know, it became her second hand it was it was absolutely perfect on picking up her words. But I think that was part of it is that because she was there from the beginning and training it. She had the literal years of of adjustments, the adjustments and file recognition. Somebody coming into Dragon for the first time going yes, I'm going to use a voice rec software. Oh, it's terrible. Like yes, yes, it is.

Jeannie  42:41
I can't get Siri to phone home and yet. We've had a fellow Raymond Miller on our podcast and I swear to God, the man pulls up his phone and he says, Hey Siri, who's that wide receiver it gets maybes running back, but he was it. He was in Louisiana for a while. Was it the two lane or maybe he went over but I know we ended up it in Chicago who was that? And Siri in the end will say the name and it will just be right and I will say Siri called Joe and Sarah like I don't know. So

Dee  43:16
some people have a native gifts.

Jeannie  43:18
have native gift others know.

Timothy  43:22
The voice you know is serious. probably scared of that guy. Really?

Jeannie  43:27
He does sound a little scary, but

Dee  43:30
he is not scary.

Jeannie  43:32
pussy cat? 

Dee  43:33
We love Raymond.

Timothy  43:35
Now I promised that I would have some intriguing questions for you some really good stumpers so what is your guilty pleasure podcast? 

Jeannie  43:46
Oh, that's tough. I mean, the hidden Almanac was my favorite, but it ended recently. And I loved that for coming out Monday Wednesday, Friday that we're five minutes long. And I found them after they'd been out for a year so I literally got to binge 50 episodes as fast as I possibly could. And freaking brilliant. So funny. I also love Welcome to Night Vale.

Dee  44:10
Welcome to Night Vale.

Jeannie  44:10
Yeah. To that end, I also like oh, these are I'm sorry. When you say I should have asked just that question. What genre of podcasts

Dee  44:22
Guilty Pleasure

Jeannie  44:23
guilty pleasure. So for me it's it's the ones that tell funny serial stories. I enjoyed stage and savant I. I ran into sage and savant before I knew that they were a podcast, hilariously enough 

Dee  44:37
at a convention. 

Jeannie  44:38
No. I wrote a short story, and it was accepted into the mad scientist scope. You know, it was my art comm K through 12 Science Fair. And they said, Oh, and hey, the guys from Sage and savant are going to be turning these into podcasts and like, what that people do that so me ignorant savage Oh, Okay, then oh, that's neat. Look how they did that. And so, Chip who's amazing did most of the work. And he added his own music that he composed his own Foley work. And I have nothing but like enormous, huge kudos to everybody who is able to do those kind of performative things, you know, getting their music together doing their voice actors recording. I mean, it's hard enough if you're just going to sit there and read a story that you wrote, because sooner or later I tripped over my own words. So there's already editing then if you add sound effects, and eerie music, and

Dee  45:35
the true answer here is that neither of us feel guilty about doing anything so we

Jeannie  45:41
see pleasure, the bias and oh wolf 359 was interesting for a while. But oddly, if I want to say in self help, Ursula, Vernon's husband ran productivity alchemy, and that was very much based on organization and getting things done Kevin Sani Kevin Sani. Sorry, Kevin, forgot you briefly. He is my brain. Ursula Burns, husband, wrestler in the name of the chicken man, the chicken productivity alchemy, because that was really neat. And that he tried, you know, D time it's my turn, how do you organize it? How do you, you know, I'd forgotten about GTD until he brought it up. I forgotten about Pomodoro until he brought it up. But having many friends that have different levels of a DD or ADHD in their life. How do you work past that is fascinating. I had a lot of psyching college. So I really appreciate is there useful advice I can glean out of this that I can pass on to somebody else? I didn't matter. I would run a loosey pelt psychiatric advice. 25.

Timothy  46:48
That's your next podcast, we'll get the Patreon and buy me coffee all set up for you.

Jeannie  46:54
We can make money at this

Dee  46:57
25 cents.

Jeannie  46:58
That'd be hard. I'm just saying. You have to you have to get in at the 25 cent level. If you want to be on the podcast.

Timothy  47:07
We're only gonna take 10%, right?

Jeannie  47:10

Dee  47:13
I'm planning on taking five cents. I don't know about you.

Timothy  47:16
I'll just take a penny because I know it's gonna be super, super popular. Yeah. Here's your next oddball question. If you throw yourself at the ground in Miss, what are you doing?

Jeannie  47:29
You're flying, of course. That's how you fly. Everybody knows. I've considered hiring myself. Doubt is a great distraction for people. Right before they hit the ground. I'll ask them some kind of weird question or joke.

Dee  47:46
I never understand the people who are trying to learn how to fly who start at the top of a building, you could just jump off a chair. Yeah, you don't actually have to jump 30 story set.

Jeannie  47:53
So anybody who's your voices are telling you, you have to like get a running leap at it. No, no, just work on the ground. Do it your local park, like everybody else.

Timothy  48:02
See my brother convinced me that if you were to jump off the fridge, then you could fly and I broke my nose a number of times.

Dee  48:17
There's that image that has been going around the web since before Facebook, at least of a guy halfway between the roof and a pool with a noodle around his waist and a drink in a town. And it's titled some version of this is why women live longer than men. It's like a refrigerator story goes right in there.

Jeannie  48:39
Oh, I don't know. We pulled out the inside of a dryer once and said, Hey, we could put a few pillows in there and then go to the top of the hill and roll ourselves down the hill of this city street in Los Angeles. And that seems like a really good idea at the time too.

Dee  48:54
Did you have a way of keeping the door shut?

Jeannie  48:57
It didn't have a door it was actually just we pulled the inside barrel out.

Dee  49:01
Right. I'm glad you're still alive.

Jeannie  49:04
There are many people that are shocked I survived. But yes, it's more fun than no right? Yes.

Dee  49:11
It's much more

Timothy  49:12
I can't tell you how many times my wife has said why are you not dead yet? I'm like, Well, are you happy? Just saying you know I the insurance money and all that.

Jeannie  49:25
That's the name some obscure spirits who have been studying you for quite some time.

Dee  49:30
I always dead again revive him. We need more data 

Jeannie  49:32
a little bit more time.

Timothy  49:33
Yeah, well, he's got those twin girls, so we got to keep them alive until they turn 18 And then we can let it go.

Jeannie  49:40
Yeah, it's not your guardian fairing. It's the fairy godmother for your girls that's looking out for you and say no,

Dee  49:47
I'm just saying Are you prepared for the day that your girls decide to throw themselves off the top of the fridge? 

Jeannie  49:52

Timothy  49:52
, see, you know, I told them  that story and they got mad at my brother and they called him up and they said you can't Do that to our Papa.

Dee  50:04
So they're not quite the right age to do that yet, but they'll get there.

Jeannie  50:06
I sometimes wonder if all of the stories of our generation are why this next generation seems so, team

Dee  50:16
we're gonna have to agree to disagree that this next generation team,

Timothy  50:20
yeah, this generation, this next generation has a wild streak in them, but I don't think they are as dangerous as we are.

Jeannie  50:28
And then when I woke up, I was in another state. And I was like, Shit, I have like five hours to get home or I am in so much trouble.

Timothy  50:35
The The reason why I asked you that question about, you know, flying, throwing yourself at the ground and missing is because, you know, I did a show for you to previous to the ones that I'm doing now. And for a year and a half, nobody could answer that question. It's Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Jeannie  50:52
Basic, you know, that's like a job that we all, you know, decide we didn't want to do anymore. But

Dee  51:00
I feel like that the question is easier to answer, the closer you are to your inner child, there are a lot of people who have really, really cut off access to their inner child. None of them are here.

Jeannie  51:13
It shocks me more when I hit people that I realize that some people don't have memories. That's true, like really vivid memories, and therefore really vivid stories. And I was, I think we were at a it was a business convention for security. And we were all sitting around the table. And some of us were just telling stories, because that's what you do. And then we get to do this. So and we're going to do that. And we got this coming up. And there was a girl who burst out. Oh, my God, I never released realize that I'm boring. Like, no, no, honey, you're not and then, but her entire life consisted of going to work coming home. She and her husband would make dinner and they would sit down on TV trays and watch TV and then they would go to bed and like oh. And I visited her house once and she didn't have bookcases. And I know right? I was like, if you ever had that uneasy feeling candles were everywhere. Before Kindles were a thing. It's like, looking around trying to figure out, I just I'm not able to fully relax here, but I can't put my finger on. Wait, where are they? Where are they all?

Dee  52:24
Where's your imagination storage. This won't help the listeners. I'm going to rotate our camera so that you can see the bookcase that goes all the way up. That is correct.

Timothy  52:41
Well, we have a library I call the library because we have this whole room that is just filled with books with those, you know five level shelves that you can get from Target. And it's just wall to wall books.

Dee  52:57
So the bookcase directly behind your head head is just

Timothy  53:00
Daily, reads. Nothing important there. Hey,

Jeannie  53:03
Chaz tells the story when he was coming over from England to marry Karen that yet 115 boxes of books and

Dee  53:14
for movers selected and looked at him like he was insane.

Jeannie  53:17
But you know, there were there were his books that he published. And then there were books of all of his friends that he bought, because of course, they're all of his friends 

Dee  53:23
and all his research books 

Jeannie  53:25
and all of his research books and books. Yeah, I have to admit, at this point, because of the LASIK, I now rely upon Kindle, or my phone more to the point because I need to be able to change the brightness and the size of the font because LASIK

Dee  53:43
most of the books I have now are the printed version is special for a reason. Yeah, um, most of the books I'm just reading are on my Kindle.  

Jeannie  53:52
I buy books mostly so I can give them to people. So yeah,

Timothy  53:56
I hear what you mean on that, because I'm at that in between stage where it's getting harder to read. And, you know, I can read stuff on my, on my cell phone or my tablets. But it gets harder and harder to read things as I as I get older and whatnot. I subscribe to a magazine called Poetry Magazine. And when I'm reading that stuff, then, you know some of the poems are more like diagrams versus regular poems. And it's really difficult to read. As matter of fact, I've had separating comic books because it's getting that hard to read. 

Dee  54:40
 would like to see 

Jeannie  54:44
somebody with a history lesson taught me of why some of the sci fi and fantasy books from the 70s are so crappy. I mean, the paper is crappy and they're tiny little letters, and sometimes the ink is going brown, and the paper is going yellow and they're super hard to read. And it's like somebody's like, well, that As the paper shortage so again, I learned things all the time by people we talk to you.

Timothy  55:07
That's the beauty of podcasting. We don't have to read anything. 

Jeannie  55:10
It is. Well, it's it's also the beauty of reaching out and finding ways to connect with your fellow man. Because whether they realize it or not everybody has some stories. And sometimes it's maybe it's you should write memoirs, or you should write memoirs about your family, or did your granddad tell you about that time that he was a moonshine runner, or?

Dee  55:32
I will say that is one of my favorite things in life. But on this podcast is seeing people who I think of as being famous people getting so excited to meet somebody that they think of as famous people. Yeah, you know, going to Christmas with my folks and saying, oh, yeah, we interviewed kit, Kathryn care. They're like, wait, you did what? And I'm like, yeah, she actually lives locally. Dude, she was, you know, it was, it was one of those fabulous moments.

Jeannie  56:06
Well, you think that's the point of Fan Fan Boy, and be like, I first went to a convention, and that was where I met David Drake. And it was just walking and passing. I'm like, Okay, I'm not gonna make a fool of myself. I'm not gonna, you know, jump up and down and scream, but he was standing there. And I started, like, I just need to say, thank you. Hover tanks. And he's like, yes. And I'm like, You solved the problem of dirt. He's like, Oh, my God, you get it, we hold each other's hands. And we literally both of us jumped up and down. And everybody else was looking at it, like, Dirt. Dirt is actually the enemy of many army equipment through, you know, you see people splashing through rivers, etc. Nobody likes that, because dirt gets in everything. And dirt is the problem with tanks. So if you have hover tanks, then you don't need to worry about, you know, Rommel, in the desert fox had all that sand problems or problems or how it wears on the treads or how it breaks down. And he's fixed the dirt problem in one beautiful, elegant solution. And he was so thrilled that there was another human being out there that said, you fix dirt. So, you know, I've always had that treasured memory of in some time, somebody really liked that. Oh, yay.

Timothy  57:18
That's really nice. That is really nice. So I have a question here. And this comes from my old podcast that I used to ask people, if I had a magic wand, and I waived it, and money wasn't an option. And time and resources weren't an option. Where do you see this podcast being in? Oh, let's say five years?

Jeannie  57:44
Well, I kind of like where we're going. That's very hard to say. I mean, this was when it when we say it's a labor of love, it really is a labor of love. So I guess it would be nice. I can I appreciated you reaching out to us very much. Because it'd be nice if more people knew about it. But we don't really spend money advertising and we don't really spend money marketing. And so in my if, if the magic fairy walked down and said, Oh, yeah, we're totally going to market this, you're going to be on everybody's lips, and everybody would know about it. I mean, that would be really cool. But we somehow made it up into I'm episode 130 something. And I'm, that's almost overwhelming that it's kept going. And it still keeps being popular. And people still want to be on it and want to talk to us. And and there's so much sort of like when you're ignorant to new, you don't realize how much there is to learn. But then you have that, you know, you're good. You're like, Oh, I know everything. But then you get to the edge of like, wow, there's still so much I have to learn. It's the the trough of disappointment, the ridge of stunning accomplishment. And I think what I would be doing is kind of the same thing, but more people would notice, you know that they would actively I would love it if Pete You know more of the people reached out and said, Hey, I'm doing a book release. Can I be on your podcast? That would be awesome. We have a little bit of that now, because we're kind of getting known with some of the publishing companies that help people do self publishing. Between that and podcast match. We get a lot of those of you know, saying and that's where we get some of the people that I've never heard of, and they've written their first book or their third book or they're new and they say, Hey, you you've interviewed all of my favorite authors. And would you like to interview me? And the answer is usually Yeah, yeah, we really would. Because because I think it again, not everybody has the story to tell if somebody has gotten as far as Writing songs or writing poetry and publishing it the the whole effort involved I think deserves a parade and confetti and I feel like we can kind of provide that for people to say, you finished a novel you stunning little thing you fantastic. That's amazing.

Dee  1:00:19
It's actually one of those things that's interesting in in the modern world, Wikipedia, which I love, I help edit. It is one of those things that you can be incredibly famous until someone not related to you has written about you, you are not considered significant as far as wiki goes. Right. So things like I have written the book and here's my release. And here's a podcast not run by me that has talked about my book can literally legitimize people right now. It's not always going to be our podcast, but if it is, that's kind of incredible. That's, you know,

Jeannie  1:00:53
we can help somebody further their career and further their joy in life. I mean, nobody ever goes into writing because they hate it. Oh, I mean to write it, at worst, it's therapy. And maybe it could be that there are certain people that I have killed off, you know, because I didn't like them and I killed them in a book and that's what you do. But we're story, but my husband reads my writing sometimes since like, I see you've managed to kill another child.

Dee  1:01:24
Her husband is a wonderful, sweet man. She's not

Jeannie  1:01:32
Paladin, oh my god. It's amazing. But I'm just I'm just a bard wandering from town to town looking for

Dee  1:01:42
your a murder hobo. And you know

Jeannie  1:01:46
that's the truth. Yeah, well, it's, it's rather like I got involved with double critical and I'm been the lead writer of coming out with a 5 E. It's a two book set of adventures in 

Dee  1:01:57
Dungeons and Dragons, fifth edition, 

Jeannie  1:01:58
sorry, five. E means Dungeons and Dragons fifth edition, but we're not allowed to say trenches and plugins because that would violate copyright. So there's no trenches and plugins such as five E. And that was that was a labor of love, too, but it came about through. Originally, when I very first got my very first story published on an online zine it was because David Speakman happened to be, he knew me, he was looking for a story, I fit beautifully in exactly how many words he needed to have. And he published it, he published a couple more. And that led me to the next KPI, I'm sorry, key performance indicator for those that are not business geeks, which is writing a story in a rom com with the worst cover ever. And that was supposed to be royalties. And I think they sold 20 whole copies. And that didn't go anywhere, but other artists important, then it was semi pro work. And then I started getting paid at professional rates, which allowed me to join Sif was so I can talk about these things of saying, Okay, what do you want out of Do you want this to be a career versus? Do you want to just say, I'm a novelist? And again, Katherine Connor had a long discussion with us once in a writing group saying, Do you want to be a writer? Do you want to be a novelist? Because the novelist, they wrote a novel, they published it, there it is, they give it to everybody and sit around and they've done it. And if that's your goal, that's really cool. Absolutely. But if you want to be a writer, you've just got more stories that you constantly want to tell. And that's what I hope. And that's what I love about it five years from now is I hope people, I would love somebody to say, Hey, I listen to your podcast. And now I have a contract. And I sold my first books to a major publisher. And I would cry. I really would. Yeah.

Timothy  1:03:49
Wow. That's awesome. I think that's the impact of your show. I mean, for me, I've been through quite a few really horrible writers workshops. And when I listen to writers drinking coffee, and I hear all of you having a great time with each other, and uplifting each other, and just, you know, being there for each other and learning and growing. It makes I'm gonna fanboy out at this point, obviously, but what you're doing with the show like it well, of course, I like you guys. But what you're doing with the show, is really a service to all of us writers out there. And because of the feeling that you have set up because of how you've set up the show, it inspires me as a writer to keep on my with my writing. And when I sit down and listen to you guys, I you know Talk to you guys are off the show,

Jeannie  1:05:01
please record yourself doing it and send it in we need to do. It's a mental image I'm not sure I can live without.

Timothy  1:05:10
Trust me, you don't want to see the visuals on that's not a pretty picture.

Jeannie  1:05:13
Yeah, I want to hear your feedback from Episode 69 in particular.

Timothy  1:05:19
Now, what's the deal was 69 I wasn't sure if I should bring that up to you guys.

Dee  1:05:25
They have plans, meal plans, and they all fell through. So it just never happened.

Jeannie  1:05:32
And I decided nine is like the sort of a magic number you don't just waste on anything,

Timothy  1:05:37
right? Like, you know, 42 and 69. They go together hand in hand.

Jeannie  1:05:43
42 is an important number 69 is an important, I used to go to drag queen bingo. And let me tell you when it was oh, 69 You got the floor show? I mean, I'm just was magnificent.

Dee  1:05:56
For about three months after that it was we're still going to record it. And we'll just we'll just insert it in there. And then

Jeannie  1:06:03
No, and not completely, there's a there's an episode 69 That's still a twinkle in our eye. That'll be definitely at the Not Safe For Work episode. Because for our fifth anniversary, we will issue

Timothy  1:06:16
exactly, well, in five years,

Jeannie  1:06:19
I'm gonna do it. You brought up that we did talk about how to write a sex scene and how to block a sex scene because that's part of writing. And I think, you know, even you know, it's like, Is there too much? Is there not enough? Is the enormity of the person fully justified by the plot? You know, these are, you know,

Dee  1:06:40
that actually came up again recently when we were just talking to Kyle Gallagher. Yeah, because she was right. She wrote a gay hockey romance. Yeah. And we had both run into things where the hockey was done badly, which is terrible. Yeah, yeah. And things were the, you know, the sex and the Romans were done terribly. Which is terrible. Yeah. And it's one of those. It's an important part that can break a book. And so many people have this. Ooh, but I can't talk about that. Yes. Talk about it.

Timothy  1:07:07
Exactly. I just, I think, and sometimes it's a tough topic to talk about. But it's been done so badly for so long. I hate most, you know, guys, you know, got brought up on, you know, the penthouse letters. So when it's done correctly, it's great. I'm a big fan of French erotica, where they bring you to the point and then they go on to the next scene.

Jeannie  1:07:38
I hate to say it, but you need girl erotica. You need girl erotica, this was years ago. I mean, a sstr.org was a thing and where, where I had brothers that of course, we're all getting Penthouse and playboys magazines. That was their, you know, the the standard adolescent boys sexual education, as it were. And for girls says like I'd reading their books and like nothing. And I remember I was traveling somewhere and I found randomly in a bookstore. It was a black Play series. And it was written by women for women. And the way they approached everything was utterly different. I had not, it blew my mind is the idea that this instead of being penthouse letters, I never thought I would be writing this but to take it to something that where the plot mattered, where you know why they're there, why they're there and what not to deliver. And the whole point of it is not the guy coming? I don't know that I know we were going to talk about this here. The point of the whole sexy is not the climax, it's not the climax. It's the build up and it's the how you feel afterwards and what happens and that's what it's like and that's girl erotica. And even if you say, on a true close, and he she pulled her and their lips gently, and the next morning, they were sitting there over coffee.

Dee  1:09:03
And there's a perfect example of girl erotica and boy erotica are badly named because there are girls who love boy erotica and boys love girl erotica. But there is a decidedly different style. Yeah. So you should check marketing for focused on girls. 

Jeannie  1:09:21

Timothy  1:09:26
Well, I was gonna say I got introduced to, I guess it would be considered girl erotica with Marguerite de Ross. That was way back in the mid to late 90s. I think she had passed away at that time. But I really enjoyed that stuff. A nice men really loved her work. And, you know, hey, I could use more in my life. Absolutely. I could use more.

Jeannie  1:09:54
There was a there was a line in the Fisher King. Do you remember the Fisher King movie when she says I just write stupid romances and Robin Williams character lights and one of the most beautiful little soliloquy is ever like no. romance isn't stupid. Romance is important. Romance is beautiful romances is what we drink coffee for, I'm going to start misquoting him. But it? It is. It's the what drives all of us to do something because even you get old Wuthering Heights in the Bronte's no matter how dramatic or tortured, there is a certain inner human relationship that matters very much, and how you deal with that, and the misunderstandings and sure, now they do formula. But if it's part of it, it's like, Okay, we have an attraction, something's gonna get thrown in the way and even knowing the formula. It takes something special to say, but this has made it Yeah, I really want them to get together. I really, oh, I can see oh, they're getting in their own way. Again. Oh, I've know analyzed the mental challenges of the author by watching what their characters do. Maybe a little bit too much.

Dee  1:11:04
Yeah, for me, the, the ultimate on any book, and it doesn't actually matter whether it's a you know, romance or a hard sci fi or whatever. But when I finished the book, and the thing that I want desperately to do is to open the next page and find out what happened to them. Even though I know this was their climax, this was their, you know, everything is perfect. No, I want to know what happens when they wake up on Tuesday. That, yeah, that if you build the kind of character that people care about, and especially true in romance, because the entire point is caring about them. But it's true, no matter what you're writing.

Jeannie  1:11:39
I mean, the most romantic cartoon I ever saw was, there was a pissed off looking old woman and a pissed off looking old man on a bench together. And he is grumpy, and he's staring this way. But he's still holding the umbrella over her head. Yes. How is that not just the most pointedly beautiful thing ever? And that's what romance is, isn't it? The very essence of romance is the you're part of me now.

Timothy  1:12:05
So is there anything that I haven't asked you yet? That you were really hoping that I would go ahead and ask you about?

Jeannie  1:12:14
Um, I want to to, I was gonna say you originally, you talked a little bit about tools. And I see you use Zen caster, we've used zoom, because it's easier. And a lot of people just have zoom, editing software, how to edit things. That is, I think some of the biggest barriers to people that wanted to go out. And so you say you want to start a podcast. So I wanted to just speak in praise for a little minute of Audacity for free stuff. And if you happen to work for an organization that happens to do any kind of videos at all, talk them into getting you a Camtasia episode, because of all of the different you know, you get online, you know, look for how to instructions or how to videos, they get to the monkey so much quicker than everybody else.

Dee  1:13:04
I will say in your in your short review of us. You commented that about episode 30. The sound quality improved. Yeah, I guess it was about episode 30 that the beautiful blue mic came into the came into our lives,

Jeannie  1:13:17
the world's prettiest microphone, and maybe it could have been that I that I bought one and had Amazon deliver it to Chas and Karen to at their place. And John already had one. So a little bit of investment in the right tools is always worth it to say of you know,

Dee  1:13:31
because yes, well, well, every computer has a microphone, is there a difference?

Jeannie  1:13:36
Not all microphones are created equal. We're gonna say and then then the thing that I mentioned, we were when we were chatting before we started recording. It is tricky. And many people are not used to the idea of talking into a pod or talking into a microphone at all. So how to work with and coach your guests on speaking clearly not dropping their chin not covering their face. You know, for many people, they get embarrassed or they start laughing and they titter laughing and then they cover their mouth. Like please don't do that. I had one where you can't see without constantly reaching out even we were just sitting around the table and pulling your hand away from her face. Please stop covering your mouth. Finally, I had to pause and like, okay, when you dip your chin and cover your mouth like that, it sounds like this, which is really, really hard to edit for. So especially if you're going to do any kind of podcasts that involves interviewing people or talking to people having a few minutes in front to say by the way, this is how you talk into a microphone is time well spent.

Timothy  1:14:36
Yeah, you know, I've done podcasting for a number of years. I've attended numerous conferences, and I've been mentored by a bunch of different people. Now, I'm not an audio engineer. And your podcast is not really aimed at audio engineers. So if there's a You know, a part that is not perfect, or there might be a little bit of a hiss in the background that, you know, somebody can hear, but I can't hear. That doesn't detract from the show. It really feels like we're sitting down, you know, and having a cup of coffee, and discussing writing, you know, something that everyone here behind the microphone really loves anyways, and is really passionate about, and your show fills that need?

Jeannie  1:15:36
Well, exactly. And we do the best we can the most challenging to were because they were long distance. Elliot doubledown came out recently, and she was in Paris. And we had this weird clicking noise all the way through and everywhere I could erase it, I did. But I did not have the sophisticated software, I really wanted to be able to say I just want to erase this part of this line. Because it was in the middle of her words in the middle of and there was a shark chewing on the cable. There was a shark chewing on our transatlantic cable the whole time and it made it hard. And ditto when we interviewed Kate Elliot out in Hawaii, that there were just there was only so much work we could do. But in the end, sometimes you just have to shrug and say we got it as good as we can. And hey, that's Kate Elliot's voice How cool is that?

Dee  1:16:24
Yeah, and the level of technology audio quality. If it is so bad that it makes it hard to listen to, that's when it's a problem. If you get it to a base level, that is fine. You're good, but I have turned on it. I've turned off a couple of podcasts. It's like I can't, I can't hear them.

Jeannie  1:16:44
I love Wolf 359 I love you guys. But I had to stop listening because they're fully in their explosions were hard to like be whispering at the same time. And I swear to God, I couldn't hear it goddamn thing. The whole swathes of conversations lost on me and like, and I can't ask them for a transcript of it or what? No. So it was just became too frustrating because they let their sound engineer run things and some times you need to let the brighter

Dee  1:17:16
you need a director

Jeannie  1:17:17
and the director with with vision and don't make your sound so loud that old people say turn that down.

Timothy  1:17:25
Well, if you want all these special effects, you know, just get a camera do a movie. That's what that's all about. You don't need all these special things to be going on your podcast. 

Jeannie  1:17:34
If you've listened to the Carol wolf episode. She was pointing out that her iPhone held sideways had all of the the ability of a 1950s camera and they made movies then, uh, why not make it now plus editing software?

Dee  1:17:51
That makes a lot of movies that we still watch today? 

Jeannie  1:17:53
Yes, we do.

Dee  1:17:55
 I mean, they also made terrible movies in the 50s 

Jeannie  1:17:57
also they're not all good. I blame my parents for MST3k A lot. So

Timothy  1:18:04
yeah, on Saturday nights. We watch these really bad B monster movies. And they are just horrible. One of them is the devil's rain. And I do not wish that upon you the the storyline is horrible. It goes nowhere. I think the the mob actually was the ones that funded the making of that movie. It is horrible.

Dee  1:18:31
It does not wrap all the way back around to good.

Jeannie  1:18:34
See, we used it for a while there. We were having a Thursday night bad movie nights. And I still just so you know. Everything fell down. And I had just bought a copy of strippers versus werewolves. And we've got a date to watch it sometime here. So  but the whole point was we get a big  to get a big room of people and no, but there have been movies I still can't believe the same phantom of the paradigm. Yeah,

Timothy  1:19:00
get a camera get a set up going there. I will watch with you guys from here in Virginia.

Jeannie  1:19:06
Fantastic. Because you know these are times you don't want a good movie because a good movie of somebody talking through it. You're like, don't make me kill you. I swear to God, if you do not put that phone down, I will end you. But these are the kind of movies that no versus werewolves. I'm like, I'm gonna go eat my Cheetos in your face. Get to the point get to the point. Oh, she's gonna die. Look at her. She's gonna die. You know? And that's fine, too.

Dee  1:19:34
And it's curious to find out whether or not the matching underwear rule works. If you're also a stripper. 

Jeannie  1:19:40
I don't know. 

Dee  1:19:40
Like, is there a line where it becomes that's your work clothes.

Jeannie  1:19:43
How about this. Do you know the magic underwear rule?

Timothy  1:19:45
I do not know the magic underwear rule.  If a woman appears in a movie wearing a matching bra and panties set she's going to be murdered before the end of this show.  The things you learn on these podcasts

Dee  1:19:56
almost 100% a few times when people have been aware of the rule they have, you know, turned it on its head, but it's almost there. So

Jeannie  1:20:03
there was a Julie set me up to watch a movie once and it was there was early on and it was a cereal, I guess was a movie it was your girl walks into her bedroom, and somebody has been in her house and he laid out to bra and underwear I'm  like, Oh, she's gonna die. It's just the most vivid of the rule I had ever seen. One where this for me be special? 

Dee  1:20:26
Because you're gonna die.

Jeannie  1:20:27
 I mean, it was almost as bad as the bad writing version of it where they had a oh, there's been so many bad versions on

Dee  1:20:34
that there was the cop show that had the vagina purse. 

Jeannie  1:20:36
vagina purse that was the worst.

Dee  1:20:39
It was it was some broadcast cop show 

Jeannie  1:20:42
broadcast cop show 

Dee  1:20:43
in the morgue. The coroner was like, Oh, well, we found her ID in a small purse tucked inside her vagina? Like,

Jeannie  1:20:54
no, no, no,

Dee  1:20:55
no, you did not know you didn't. That happened after that.

Jeannie  1:20:59
 I mean, are you a roomful of gay guys? straight guys or something? Because there's clearly not one. Have you ever asked a chick? We can tell you all the places we hide her ID and that is not one of them. But it was much like

Dee  1:21:13
that made broadcast television. Anyone can be a writer.

Jeannie  1:21:16
Anyone can be a writer, you're out there you can be a writer you can do better than this. Please do better than this. Please do not assume that if a girl bought a $60 bra, she would buy the matching panties.

Dee  1:21:27
Because the matching pennies are always terrible. No.

Timothy  1:21:29
I'm taking notes on this for sure.

Jeannie  1:21:31
We have Now horrified your audience that's why he edits I can tell you sitting there staring this instant. Dear God, what have I done? What have I unleashed

Dee  1:21:43
just made his be his first episode where there's an outtake the outtakes are rated.

Jeannie  1:21:52
Use the G version. forever if everyone else wants to hear the entire conversation, click here. This is also not coincidentally why we started a podcast

Dee  1:22:04
with a low low price of 699.

Timothy  1:22:07
Well, when I make the edits and your bonus episode with those edits, and then charge my listeners for, I'll make sure to get you guys a cut of the profits.

Jeannie  1:22:17
Yeah, fair enough. You know, there's a black market uncut.

Dee  1:22:23
This is why none of us are ever running for office. This is

Jeannie  1:22:26
no that's not it.

Dee  1:22:30
This is one of the many many reasons why none of us are running for office.

Jeannie  1:22:38

Dee  1:22:41
todays at eighty- seven.

Jeannie  1:22:46
Bob, if you're out there on your NSA post listening, we hope you've gotten a little something out of this.

Timothy  1:22:51
Yeah, well, I got him the job with the NSA. So he owes me a little something.

Jeannie  1:22:55
That's fair he owes you, you know, says I assure you working the graveyard shift for many organizations, both public and private. You don't want to know what people surfing look at in the middle of the night. You don't , nope.

Timothy  1:23:12
Well, Jeannie and Dee, I want to thank both of you for coming on the show here and sharing your insight with our listeners here is their one thing, one idea that you'd like to leave us with, about writers drinking coffee,

Jeannie  1:23:27
be bold, Fortune favors, fools, drunks and feisty girls that are up for anything. And if you just decide to do decide to do it, you know, in the words of Yoda, don't try just say I'm gonna do this and it may suck and my first story may be bad and my second story may also be bad and maybe they'll start getting better about eight or nine and somewhere in there. You can write you really can. And everything else is just there are so many tools and more every day there's Grammarly. There's spellcheck. There's everything anybody can write. And I believe anybody can podcast even if you had nothing more than your little laptop going around talking in it, you can do it just decide to. That's about it.

Timothy  1:24:13
Well, thank you so very much. definitely appreciated you.

Jeannie  1:24:16
Oh, it's been a delight. Thanks for having us. 

Timothy  1:24:18
You got it so that's the episode. I want to thank you again for taking a listen. And if you want to outsmart the algorithm, and have me review a podcast, email me, Timothy at Find a podcast about XYZ or go to the website, find a podcast about that XYZ, where you can listen to the other episodes, and leave me voicemail. I'm here to help you find your next binge worthy podcast. Thank you for listening to find a podcast about which is a production of  Gagglepod East studios at Gagglepod weave been helping creatives tell their story through podcasting since 2017. Look us up at gaggle pod.com and see all of the network shows and reach out to us so we can help you with telling your story to the world.